Digital Parish: Creating online sanctuary with Sherry Hietpas

Ryan Dunn [00:00:00]:
This is pastoring in the digital parish, your resource and point of connection for building your digital ministry toolkit and bringing your congregation into the digital age. My name is Ryan Dunn. And in this episode, we sit down with Sherry Heapas, who on one level is the associate pastor of digital ministry at Andrew Chapel United Methodist Church in Vienna, Virginia. She is also the founder of Encounter, an all digital expression of church. She does all this while living with her family in Thailand. In this session, we're gonna talk with Sherry about the challenges and successes of cultivating a digital congregation, the impact of traditional liturgical expressions online, the use of AI generated tools for social media engagement, and the evolution of pastoral care in a digital context. Really, it's all the stuff that you're doing, all the stuff that you're interested in. Well, at least, you know, when it comes to digital ministry that is.

Ryan Dunn [00:01:01]:
If this kind of content from pastoring in the digital parish is helpful for you or valuable, then let it be known to the whole world. How you can do that is simply by leaving a rating or review on your podcast listening platform of choice. That'd be super helpful. It helps new people find the podcast. It helps us connect with other digital ministry practitioners who could provide some really valuable insight as guests on this podcast. So do that, and thanks so much. Our guest slash adjunct professor for this session, again, is reverend Sherry Heatpass. Besides being associate pastor at Andrew Chapel and running encounter, Sherry has a passion for building community as an expression of faith in Jesus Christ and believes many relationships are formed around a table, usually over good food and discussion.

Ryan Dunn [00:01:52]:
Sherry believes that connections made online can help build connections and springboard into deeper spiritual connections in one's personal life as well. Kinda sounds familiar. I'll bet you're there too. So let's get talking about how it started, how it's going. I'm pastoring in the digital parish. Sherry Heatpaz, thank you so much for joining us Dunn pastoring in the digital parish. How goes it with your soul this morning?

Sherry Hietpas [00:02:20]:
It is good. It is really good. I am currently living in Bangkok, Thailand and serving at Andrew Chapel United Methodist Church. And today, it is just a beautiful, sweltering, like, 90 something degrees by 8 AM.

Ryan Dunn [00:02:38]:
Oh, okay. It's 9 AM for you. So I'm I'm actually saying good morning, but it's, this is the last thing I'm gonna do before retiring for the evening. And you said Andrews Chapel. That that's in Virginia. Right?

Sherry Hietpas [00:02:52]:
Yes. So I am a I'm in the associate pastor of digital ministry at Andrew Chapel, and we are located in Vienna, Virginia, which is just on the edge of Tysons Corner, outside of Washington Dunn. And so we're a small what began as a country church in the 1800 that has slowly developed into a suburban church Dunn before too long, maybe more urban than we ever imagined.

Ryan Dunn [00:03:19]:
Yeah. Yeah. My grandparents lived in Leesburg, Virginia. Yeah. And we used to drive through Tysons Corner, and I always thought, oh, isn't that online a quaint little cute little Tysons corner quote unquote, you know, kinda way. But There

Sherry Hietpas [00:03:32]:
you go. Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Dunn [00:03:33]:
Absorbed by the sprawl. Right?

Sherry Hietpas [00:03:36]:
Absolutely. Absolutely.

Ryan Dunn [00:03:38]:
Well, what inspired you to start encounter out of this Andrews Chapel in Tysons Corner, Virginia?

Sherry Hietpas [00:03:46]:
In during the pandemic, the senior pastor, I had I would come on. I was a ministry intern there at the Dunn, and we were looking as many small churches at the time where we were getting into prerecorded services, and then we moved over to a live stream service. But as we were looking at it, for many people that aren't already connected to your church, the livestream of a small congregation that they don't have any connection to. And so we were really looking at a way of doing a prerecorded service that would, in many ways, reach out to those that maybe weren't churched at all, whether they had been harmed from the church or left the church or were really on the go. Maybe they were geographically dislocated. And so encounter began as a very team approach between, you know, our communications director, our pastor the me as associate pastor eventually Dunn then the senior pastor. And then over time, as we looked at how the you know, how far our reach was Dunn, and we began to make sort of adaptations to that. As life would have it, I'm a military spouse, and my, family's relocation to Bangkok, Thailand really shifted encounter from more of a team approach to where I took the helm of that and brought that ministry with me.

Sherry Hietpas [00:05:22]:
Yes. And so over time as we've been at this for a while, I've noticed that the the reach is really changing from and adapting from a worship as well as more of a discipleship for those that are already church. So we're kind of looking at a way to walk a little more deeply in our faith through encounter.

Ryan Dunn [00:05:45]:
How are you getting an impression of what your reach is?

Sherry Hietpas [00:05:48]:
So as we look on YouTube and we see who is our numbers aren't you know, I'm noticing that as we share those videos on YouTube and through social media, I'm finding as a military spouse that has been connected with churches across the country. We've been you know, I've been on staff at churches in California. I've, been active in churches in North Carolina and now Virginia. So as I see those demographics show up, I'm recognizing that we're reaching a lot of people that are churched and active in congregations. And so this is a way that they are hitting that kind of midweek refresh of a way of their their using this for more discipleship. And at the same time, we're still continuing to kind of keep things at a level where we're trying to kind of remove some of the stained glass language of making it very accessible to those that are unlikely to come in to a church, a a traditional brick and mortar church at this time. And so it's keeping it short, keeping it concise, making it easily shareable or different aspects of that that are hopefully as that reach continues to grow. But we're watching the the it's slow.

Sherry Hietpas [00:07:08]:
It's slow, but it's steady.

Ryan Dunn [00:07:10]:
Yeah. So video production is, a central piece of of what you're trying to do. And Absolutely. Now you're kind of away from the church staff, you know. So how are you pulling this together? So I I've watched some of the videos Dunn you you're doing edits, but also you're, like, the personality on camera. And obviously, there's other people there who are running it. Like, how are you pulling that stuff together?

Sherry Hietpas [00:07:37]:
Oh, I'm a one man show.

Ryan Dunn [00:07:39]:
Okay. Oh.

Sherry Hietpas [00:07:42]:
So as we, as we travel across Asia, I'll, take times and kind of record at different places that might be interesting and try to just do, you know, just openings and welcomes, whether it be in downtown Bangkok. We were recently in Singapore, so I recorded in various areas of Singapore. So as we as, you know, explore different areas, I've been trying to bring those elements in. And then as far as we offer, like, a scripture, a meditation, a Ryan. And so those things are definitely in a more, you know, contained environment to where the focus can really be on worship and growing, but I do like to allow people to see. I mean, before moving here, I would had never been to Asia. So seeing some of the day to day life has kind of kind of been fun.

Ryan Dunn [00:08:37]:
Did you have a background in media production? Because as you go through the videos, obviously, there's a sense of, like, narrative story happening here. You know, there's there's relationship between the different scenes and obviously the editing aspects that go into Dunn? How does she pull all that together?

Sherry Hietpas [00:08:55]:
Nothing of that sort. We, I took a lot of the stuff that I learned from seminary, and I thought about what elements that we learned as far as worship Dunn that gathering. And and so as I prepare for encounter, I think a lot about how would I prepare a worship space in person. Okay. And so I want you know? Yes. Most of these scenes are people are invited into my home, basically. Sometimes they may be at the kitchen table. Sometimes they're, you know but trying to build a space that seems more worshipful.

Sherry Hietpas [00:09:30]:
And and and I also understand that we're also kind of part of the podcast generation where a lot of people that are on the go, they may not be watching the video at all. They may be popping in an AirPod and, you know, listening to a message on their morning run, and that is okay. We want to just encourage however in your life that you can take time to connect and encounter god, take the time to do that. So we're trying to just make it accessible. And so if if you can take the time for it to be worship, I wanna help support you in that. But if you don't and it's just more of a chance to recharge, then by all means.

Ryan Dunn [00:10:12]:
Well, in most of our faith communities, really in our churches and congregations, there there's a set rhythm to the way that we kinda gather. Obviously, it's centered around the, like, the Sunday morning gathering. Encounter is something different. So what is the what is really the weekly rhythm of connection look like for Encounter?

Sherry Hietpas [00:10:34]:
So we don't base things on a weekly calendar per se. We produce seasons of encounter. So if you if you look, we build 4 episodes around the 4 weeks of advent. We may do I did as, you know, encounter grace. So it was 4 episodes on grace. So we've looked at different topics, but one of the things that I've noticed over the past few over over the past year, there aren't a lot of liturgical offerings online, especially if you go to YouTube, that are mainline Protestant. If you're looking for a liturgical expression of faith, you can find them in the Catholic Church and you can find online offerings that are Catholic. But what I found, especially living out here, where there aren't many English speaking churches in our there's there's Dunn, and it's an inner denominational church.

Sherry Hietpas [00:11:34]:
And so if you're missing that liturgical rhythm of it's Ash Wednesday, it's the season of Lent, it's the season of Advent, You can't connect with God in that way. And so when I recognize that we have an entire subset of a community. I mean, there are expats all over the world, but within the military, foreign service, that they're not able to kind of worship in the same way that we have access to in the states. And so this year for encounter, we've made an effort of bringing the seasons of liturgical calendar in so that Ash Wednesday was one of our largest viewers' viewing days because I think for many that want to commemorate that, to remember that important day, those opportunities may not be available to them. And so we build these by seasons. And so new episodes drop on Wednesdays on YouTube, and then we kinda promote them on social media and continue on. But they're really always accessible for you to kind of go back and look. So we'll we'll release a few episodes, take a short break, and come back at the next season or with the next servant series, for instance.

Ryan Dunn [00:12:59]:
Yeah. Are you able to get an idea of how people are discovering the content that you're putting out?

Sherry Hietpas [00:13:05]:
Not really. This is Yeah. So new at this point. So we're working on building deeper engagement as far as, you know, encouraging people to comment or, you know, let us know that you're watching and filling out connect cards, you know, leading people to website. But at this point, a lot of comments and engagement from the other side are not there, and so those are continuing areas that we're continuing to work toward and grow. I think people I mean, I can tell that they're watching. Yeah. They're definitely not filling out a connect card like they would if they were walking into the service for the first time.

Sherry Hietpas [00:13:42]:
So I maybe that takes time to develop.

Ryan Dunn [00:13:45]:
Yeah. Oh, it it definitely does. At least, I hope so because so much of what I'm doing too is still in that kind of, well, we're seeing some growth, you know, hasn't gotten for sure the the comments that we hope to to see. And then talking with so many practitioners, like, it really does take some time to build that up. Like, there's a sense of trust that comes out Dunn just seeing a presence in those spaces. Has there been some particular videos that just seem to have connected with people more or have garnered more viewership than others?

Sherry Hietpas [00:14:17]:
I noticed Ash Wednesday was huge, for us, but I noticed that typically for those that are kind of in that creation process, the beginning of a series, man, you get, like, a ton of views and people are so excited. And then by the last one of the series, you the numbers are, like, a fraction of what they they did they started. And so I have I have found that, you know, if I have something really, really important to say, it needs to be front loaded on that first episode for sure. And so, I mean, yes, I wanna continue to keep them coming back, but I, you know, on a personal note, I think, man, by that that 4th episode of encounter grace, Dunn that was that was the best sermon that I, you know, had in that entire series. And it had, you know,

Ryan Dunn [00:15:09]:
half the know.

Sherry Hietpas [00:15:11]:
So I learned quickly, like, okay. Like, you better come out of the gate, you know, really because people are excited to try something new or they get busy. So bigger days like Easter, and I'll be interested to see if some of these smaller liturgical days have any, impact to me at this point where we're gonna see where they go, but I don't really know how Ascension Sunday is gonna go, but we'll see.

Ryan Dunn [00:15:39]:
It's a chance for education and enlightenment. Right? I mean Exactly. In sharing the story of it.

Sherry Hietpas [00:15:45]:
And there's not any of those resources out there. And so in especially for United Methodist. So

Ryan Dunn [00:15:52]:
Yeah.

Sherry Hietpas [00:15:53]:
What Dunn that lens look like for us specifically?

Ryan Dunn [00:15:56]:
I think there's a general curiosity about kind of these traditional expressions of of that liturgical calendar. So the other podcast I do is meant for a what we call a seeker audience. So people who are maybe kind of at the margins of of church involvement. And consistently, again and again, the most downloaded episodes we get are those that address ideas around Lent or or some of the, I guess, smaller it's it's because people have these questions about, well, what what does this mean? And if this has been a tradition for so long, like what kind of ancient meaning can be brought into my life today? And they're curious and just relevant. Yeah. It works.

Sherry Hietpas [00:16:39]:
I think so. I think one of the beautiful things about in person worship is the sacredness of coming into the space and encountering god there. And so what does that look like in the digital space? How are we able to cultivate the sacred? And so, you know, in in some in some of the episodes we've explored, you know, different prayer practices online breath prayer and different expressions of prayer. But I've also found there's there's really some power. I've had some of the the church members talk to me that are churched about, wow, you brought in a prayer that I hadn't even found in the hymnal, and it was this ancient prayer, and and that really meant a lot to me. And so there are ways that we can kind of explore these words that have been part of our faith tradition for a long time. And so introducing that to a new audience is really exciting.

Ryan Dunn [00:17:33]:
Yeah. Well, Dunn I love this idea that so much of the detraction against digital expressions of church that it seems like we're trying to blow up everything that existed before it. And yet here we are having this conversation about really kinda leaning into the traditional aspects of of how we express our our faith narratives. Right? It's fascinating.

Sherry Hietpas [00:17:57]:
Yeah. Yeah. I think people are just looking for something real and authentic Dunn I'll be honest. If you walk through the doors of the inter chapel, you're going to find this beautiful community of people that have been from various backgrounds, various political persuasions that have been sitting in the same pews next to each other for 40 years even if they vote the exact opposite way for and they're determined to be in community with one another, and their expressions of worship are pretty traditional. We have you know, we we recite the creeds certain Sundays Dunn the music, we still have an organ. And so while encounter, you know, we we definitely wanna bring that to a digital audience that we don't necessarily have to throw out everything that we are because it's not authentic to who Andrew Chappell is. And so what does that look online? Because there's some there's some great contemporary expressions of faith out there, and that may not be what our community is necessarily gifted in in the same way. And so Mhmm.

Sherry Hietpas [00:19:11]:
So just trying to give them a, a little taste of what this community is Dunn, you know, if you wanna be a part of it from wherever you may be, this is this is what you get, a community that is, diverse and and inclusive and seeking God Mhmm. Ultimately.

Ryan Dunn [00:19:32]:
Well, we've addressed kinda tying to the past. Let's talk about laying into the future. Are there any specific technologies that, you lay into quite a bit in the work that you're doing in developing for encounter or applications or programs? Yeah.

Sherry Hietpas [00:19:48]:
So, what is the best things that that well, there are 2. Finding a good editing software in this day and age is essential. It is well worth putting the investment in. I've been using Final Cut Pro since I've started at the recommendation of somebody else that, you know, at another church, and that has been just so seamless as far as editing videos and things like that. But the thing that I noticed the biggest reach Dunn, changing is we've been using an AI generated software to help with reels on social media. Yeah. And that has been incredibly helpful, because I've noticed that our social engagement on social media has just exploded in comparison to what we were doing before. And so it takes those shorts from the video.

Sherry Hietpas [00:20:42]:
So I upload the episode of encounter when it's ready to publish, and it generates, like, 6 anywhere from, like, 6 to 12 options of 30 second reel that you can post with captions. And so it's it saved me hours and hours and hours of time because this is you know, you can spend all of this time trying to figure out what is going to make that algorithm Uh-huh. Reach this subset of people. And that's not what we went into ministry for at all. Or at least I not why I did. And so I would rather spend those hours working on the message than I would trying to figure out how to, and so, anyway, within a matter of minutes, the computer spits us out, and we choose, and I'm able to edit the real to where I want it to be. And then off it goes, and I've noticed that it's even if people are not watching the entire episode of encounter, they're catching 30 seconds of something that they're Mhmm. That they're engaging with as they're scrolling through their phones.

Ryan Dunn [00:21:52]:
There's something valuable there. Yeah. What's what's the program that you're using? And we're not trying to be an advertisement, but it's helpful for people

Sherry Hietpas [00:21:59]:
to know

Ryan Dunn [00:22:00]:
who might be. Yeah.

Sherry Hietpas [00:22:00]:
We use Opus.

Ryan Dunn [00:22:03]:
Okay.

Sherry Hietpas [00:22:03]:
And so it was just one of the ones that we had come across. We, I read a couple of reviews and decided to give it a shot Dunn so far so good.

Ryan Dunn [00:22:12]:
Yeah. And are you finding that the AI generated clips are actually relevant and make sense?

Sherry Hietpas [00:22:19]:
Yes. Yes. Okay. And what I what I loved about it is because it gives you 12 options, you know, 9 9 times out of 10 that their first, you know, hey. This will get the best traction, and this is the a plus real isn't what I want to be out there. And so I'm able to go down and continue to to go through. And so maybe I find that their 5th option is the best, but then I can edit that on either side of it. Dunn but I've found that that has really brought our community or our social media engagement up completely.

Ryan Dunn [00:22:56]:
Okay.

Sherry Hietpas [00:22:57]:
It's just hits differently.

Ryan Dunn [00:22:59]:
Yeah. I played a little bit with Opus, and what I do appreciate it about is that it does give us a sense of justification for why it's recommending. Yes. I've used a few other programs, and it's it's like working with the lectionary. You're online, well, here's this text, but I I don't know, like, how I'm supposed to make meaning out of this. Like, I know I said it, but

Sherry Hietpas [00:23:24]:
Exactly. Yeah. This was not where I was going

Ryan Dunn [00:23:27]:
with that. Particular clip, yeah, is is gonna be relevant for anybody on social media, especially out of context. So Yeah.

Sherry Hietpas [00:23:34]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. So you definitely have to cultivate. You don't just throw it out out there. So but it's been good. Yeah.

Ryan Dunn [00:23:41]:
Because sometimes yep. Mhmm. Yep. It's just really kinda out there. Yeah. You don't know.

Sherry Hietpas [00:23:45]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Dunn [00:23:46]:
Well, let's get to the pastoral care side of it. On your experiences, or have there been some key lessons that you've Dunn gleaned from lending into pastoral care and leadership in a digital context?

Sherry Hietpas [00:24:02]:
I have been so grateful for avenues like Zoom.

Ryan Dunn [00:24:08]:
Mhmm.

Sherry Hietpas [00:24:08]:
You know, there there are times that in this digital space, I think, gosh, you know, especially on the church setting where, you know, you can you can fill your day with administrative meetings, but to have this opportunity to be living so far away from the congregation in which I serve, a completely different effect because I'm not able to drop by. I'm not able to be at the coffee shop. I'm not able to check-in on someone at the hospital. And so I keep an open calendar that is available to my congregation. And then if, you know, you reach out through Encounter, which, you know, there's plenty of ways to access my information through encounter, but it's really easy for those in our congregation to set up an appointment. And I have a lot of due to the 12 hour time difference. It's 11 now with the time change. Dunn I have a lot of late night meetings or super early morning meetings that I'm able to still meet and check-in on on those that that I'm connected to.

Sherry Hietpas [00:25:14]:
And, ironically, the other aspect of pastoral care that I have really leaned into in this space is letter writing. I've spent a lot of time sending out cards that I didn't do when I was seeing them face to face, but to drop in a letter and say, hey. I've been praying for you today, and I know this is going on or I know that, you know, this is, you know, it's been a year since your your spouse passed. So those are ways that in spite of the distance that you can still let people know that you're there and that you care.

Ryan Dunn [00:25:59]:
Do you find that sometimes you're being asked to provide pastoral care to, people in the comment section, so to speak?

Sherry Hietpas [00:26:09]:
Not as much with encounter. Yeah. Because the engagement hasn't really been in that way. It definitely I see it some in the community here that I am you know, in here in Thailand, you know, I'm the lone pastor in our area. There's a there's a local church that, is lay run that is English speaking, but there's not a military chaplain. There's not any so they'll you know, I'll be walking the dogs Dunn be like, you're the pastor, aren't you? And so Yeah. Where where can I get connected? And so I'll tell them about encounter. Or I'll tell them about different things.

Sherry Hietpas [00:26:51]:
And so it's it's really been kind of this unique unique season of life and a unique season of ministry. But, no, I have not had to had to really dive into the comment section in ways that may come in the future. Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Dunn [00:27:10]:
Well, let's future forecast a little bit then. In a year's time, let's start with 1 year and then maybe 3 years out. How would you measure success? So, like, what in a year's time, what do you wanna look back at and say, like, oh, this is how we know that we've made an impact?

Sherry Hietpas [00:27:28]:
I would like to see more digital engagement as far as having people actually comment, answering the questions that I offer. You know? Hey. Why don't you drop in the comment section section and let me know that you you know, this is making an impact here? I would like to see in the fall, one of the goals that I have with Encounter is that we're going to offer a season of Encounter, and with that, offer a synchronous, like, Zoom discussion group with it. And so that if you and so having engagement with that with people from all over would be incredible. So we're trying different ways to continue to build that digital congregation, that digital community to where, you know, not only are you coming for worship, but that you're also coming for discipleship, that you're coming to grow in your faith. And so alongside of with worship, you're getting the opportunity to meet with another group of people from wherever they may be and discuss the sermon on the mount, for instance, and how that impacts our day to day life. So that seeing that continue to grow and evolve, would just be incredible.

Ryan Dunn [00:28:45]:
Well, where do you is a logical first place for people to check out Encounter?

Sherry Hietpas [00:28:51]:
So the best place to find us is on YouTube through our YouTube channel or at our website. You can find us at, Andrew Chapel, umc dotorg/encounter. And all of the episodes are there linked on our website. You can fill out a connect card. Let us know that you're worshiping. You can send prayer requests. Our prayer ministry, is on hand to pray. We've had some prayer requests come through.

Sherry Hietpas [00:29:16]:
So things like that that we can continue to be in relationship with those that would like to encounter God through this way.

Ryan Dunn [00:29:24]:
Perfect book ending there, pastor. Well delivered. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Sherry Hietpas [00:29:29]:
Thank you so much, Ryan.

Ryan Dunn [00:29:31]:
Yes. These kinds of stories are so valuable for informing our own practice of digital ministry. So thanks to Reverend Sherry for sharing all of that with us. You can share your own experiences in our Facebook group. It's conveniently called Pastoring in the Digital Parish. If you wanna hear more episodes like this one, well, then just check out our last one with reverend Bethany Purebult, if you haven't already, that is. That episode is called from TikTok to Discord. Dunn, another good episode, planting a digital church.

Ryan Dunn [00:30:02]:
That is from May of 2023. So you can follow-up to this one just in terms of getting something new off the ground. It's so rewarding for me to be able to have these conversations, I'll tell you. I get to learn with these individuals and help support both their ministries, And I really hope that we get to help support your ministry as well. If there's something I can do for you, if you have some ideas for future episodes that would be helpful, reach out. Digitalparish@umcom.org. That's a handy email address to send your suggestions or comments to. We're drawing to a close on season number 8.

Ryan Dunn [00:30:42]:
I think that this is our last episode. So as we start dreaming about a 9th season, I encourage you to drop it in the Facebook group, leave your suggestions or utilize that email to tell us what would be really valuable for you in your own practice of ministry. Thanks so much. Again, my name is Ryan Dunn. Look forward to chatting at you soon. In the meantime, peace.