Discover how church leaders can communicate effectively on political and cultural hot topics while fostering courageous, inclusive conversations in diverse congregations with Reverend Scott Hughes.
Listen and subscribe: Apple Podcasts / Spotify / Amazon
In this episode
Navigating tough conversations in today’s polarized climate is one of the most pressing challenges for church communicators and leaders. In this episode of the MyCom Church Communications and Marketing Podcast, Rev. Dr. Scott Hughes, author of the Courageous Conversations curriculum, talks about how churches can respond to hot-button topics with a prophetic voice—without alienating their communities.
Whether you’re crafting public statements on current events, encouraging difficult conversations, or seeking to equip your congregation for deeper unity, this episode will support your ministry with real-world examples and expert advice.
(00:00) The church’s prophetic voice
(03:08) Rev. Scott Hughes
(04:19) Preachers reflecting on public responses
(08:24) Speaking out in purple congregations
(12:09) Examples of courageous conversations
(16:18) The toughest topics to address in church
(19:04) Introducing a tough topic in church
(20:44) When it works to have a tough conversation
(23:29) Crafting a public statement for your church
(27:20) Refreshing for ministry
(30:56) Speaking to our current times
Scott is the Associate General Secretary (World Service) of Discipleship Ministries. Previously Scott served as Executive Director, Congregational Vitality & Intentional Discipleship, and as both an associate pastor and pastor of a multi-point charge. Scott has an MDiv from Asbury Theological Seminary and a DMin in the spiritual formation track from Southern Methodist University. Scott is an elder in the North Georgia Conference since 2007. Scott was recommended for this specific conversation because of his work in developing the “Courageous Conversations” curriculum.
Courageous Conversations is a toolbox that local churches can use to inspire and encourage the church and individuals to participate in conversations that might seem difficult–such as immigration or Christian Nationalism.
Related episodes:
Episode transcript
Ryan Dunn [00:00:00]:
What is your church saying about the political and cultural hot topics of today? If that question causes you a little bit of anxiety, this episode of MyComm is for you. Hi, this is MyComm Church Communications and Marketing. We're building your digital ministry toolkit and helping to bring your congregation into the digital age. My name is Reverend Ryan Dine. I'm a fellow traveler on the journey to better church communications and connections. To say that there's a lot happening in our world right now is definitely an understatement. Although this episode is coming out in March of 2026, I feel like really that statement is probably nearly universally true. There's always a need for the church's prophetic voice.
Ryan Dunn [00:00:53]:
In this episode of My Comm, we're talking with Reverend Scott Hughes about how our church can communicate a prophetic voice in a way that honors the voice already existing in our congregations. Scott is the Associate General Secretary, World Service of Discipleship Ministries of the United Methodist Church. Previously, Scott served as Executive Director, Congregational Vitality and Intentional Discipleship, and as both an associate pastor and pastor of a multipoint church. Scott has an MDiv from Asbury Theological Seminary. He has a doctorate in the Spiritual Formation track from Southern Methodist University. University. He's an elder in the North Georgia Conference since 2007, and Scott was specifically recommended for this conversation because of his work in developing the Courageous Conversations curriculum. And Courageous Conversations is a toolbox that local churches can use to inspire and encourage the church and individuals to participate in conversations that might seem difficult, things like immigration or Christian nationalism.
Ryan Dunn [00:02:07]:
And you can find out more about that at umcdiscipleship.org. We're going to talk through some topics around quote-unquote purple congregations. We're going to talk about being proactive in leading courageous conversations in our congregations and in practicing discernment in responding to tragedies. If conversations like this are valuable to you, then make sure to hit the subscribe button or follow button on your podcast listening platform. It would also be a big help to us if you left a rating or review, or if you made a comment about what you appreciate about this particular episode. Apps like Spotify and YouTube allow for comments, and it lets us know what kind of content is meaningful for your communications ministry. All right, let's roll into this conversation on the MyComm Church Communications and Marketing Podcast.
Ryan Dunn [00:03:02]:
Scott, so often when we begin these podcasts, I ask people about where they are geographically, but, um, and how things are going there. We're in the same town, so that feels a little redundant. So let's get fairly specific. Uh, how goes it with your soul today?
Scott Hughes [00:03:17]:
Oh, how goes with my soul? What a great beginning conversation. Very Wesleyan. Um, how goes with my soul? Good. I feel like I'm in transition still. As we noted, I have boxes in the background here in the middle of a move. Um, but otherwise, I feel very blessed. Wife's at home. My two boys are doing very well.
Scott Hughes [00:03:39]:
So the world is good when they're doing well. So all is right with my soul at the moment. So yeah, thanks. Thanks for that opening question. I'm already in a good headspace now. Awesome.
Ryan Dunn [00:03:50]:
Well, good. Because some of the stuff that we're going to be discussing is, it's conflictual. It leads us into a place of uneasiness. We're recording this mid-late February 2026. We're about a month removed right now from the killings of Alex Petty and Renee Good in Minneapolis. And when events like that occur, especially tragic events like that occur, church leaders often feel a pull to speak and to react. And sometimes they might be a little bit hesitant to do so, either from the aspect of feeling like they're just jumping in too quickly without being reflective of their faith communities, or they're just being too slow to react and that they want to get a pulse of the people before they kind of throw something out there. So, can you help us to maybe put some framework together on how we might be able to both timely and responsibly address some of these hot-button topics in public discourse?
Scott Hughes [00:05:03]:
Yeah, this is a great question. I could probably go in lots of different areas, so I'm going to try and be structured in my thoughts here. First, I want to pick up on the word react, and I would say it's probably good not to react, right? One of the distinctions I like to make is reacting and responding, right? And especially in a culture of outrage where lots of people make lots of money to get you outraged, number one would be not react. But I think to your point, how do we respond well? How do we respond in a way that points people to the gospel and to help them think? And I think one of the places to begin is to help people connect theology and politics. Because as you noted earlier in a conversation, you said, well, people will comment, well, you should stay out of politics. This is political. And I think we need to acknowledge politics is everywhere. We're all political animals.
Scott Hughes [00:05:59]:
There's nothing wrong with being political. Now, partisan, yes, we should not be partisan, but we absolutely, because our theology has political implications. And I think that's one of the reasons why it's first not to react, but to respond and to begin with our theology, begin with our, what do we believe about all people being made in the image of God and how they have dignity and worth. And let's use that as some framing for how we begin the conversation. Sometimes there's education as a pastor. I'm not speaking politically, I'm speaking biblically. And even that's hard work sometimes. We've heard stories of people saying, well, I just pointed you to the Sermon on the Mount.
Scott Hughes [00:06:43]:
I'm just saying what Jesus is saying, right? And trying to help people take off some ears, if you will, of just hearing political rhetoric and pointing people to a deeper engagement with theology that absolutely has political implications, which I think is really tough because it's like just layers of onions that you're trying to unpack to get to. Let's begin with what our theology says, and then let's talk through why this matters. People are hurting, people are in pain. How can we speak pastorally to the situation that is happening around us where people are hurting? They need to hear good news, news of hope and healing. And a word of justice and truth and compassion and grace, all those things. And so it's a difficult job to speak into the current moment and why it requires a lot of care. So that's maybe a little bit of starting point that I'm thinking through with that really good question.
Ryan Dunn [00:07:42]:
Yeah, I hear respond, don't necessarily react. Some of the times though, Maybe I'm being a little confessional here in saying this, that we do want to get a read of the room as we do respond. And in a denomination like ours, a big tent denomination, the United Methodist Church, we might have some very wide-ranging feelings in regards to, well, anything that touches on the political once again. And oftentimes we hear it being called purple, that we have purple churches or purple congregations. Is it possible for leaders to craft statements or offer a public witness to the truth as they see it without alienating a part of these purple congregations or part of their purple communities?
Scott Hughes [00:08:46]:
That's such a great question. First, I would say if you find yourself in that position, job well done. I mean, seriously, in the sense that—
Ryan Dunn [00:08:55]:
As the head of a congregation like that, you mean?
Scott Hughes [00:08:58]:
Yeah, I mean, I think it's really easy for people to self-select their communities and to be able to hold the tension of a congregation that has Democrats and Republicans, conservatives, liberals, you know, whatever that those groups are now, of being able to have that, I think number one is a challenge and a gift. And first and foremost, it begins with relationships. Having relationships to where you can speak difficult truth. It begins with people knowing your intentions and being clear. My intention is not to offend. My intention is not to push away. But my intention is to speak truth to power. And to speak grace and truth and light.
Scott Hughes [00:09:41]:
And that's a very narrow road that we're trying to navigate, but an important road to help educate people on gospel truths, on the God who is for us, who is for victims, for poor, for suffering. We have a God who leans in that direction. And so we have this hard job of pointing people in that direction and speaking truth while speaking it in a way that people hear. And I think that's one of the hardest components is speaking in a way that people hear and not just close their ears off and go, oh, you're a Marxist, or oh, you're a MAGA, or oh, you're, you know, whatever. But speaking in a way that people will go, be invited into thinking deeper about what's happening around them, more theologically around them, instead of just echoing what we're hearing in other places, which is difficult to do because there's just so much noise. I hope that's helpful, or at least it'll a little bit. Yeah.
Ryan Dunn [00:10:43]:
Do you ever feel like there is a place to provoke?
Scott Hughes [00:10:48]:
Always. Always there's a place to provoke. And doing so in a way, again, that lands. To me, too much what happens is it's so easy to dismiss, right? Oh, you're just speaking from this perspective. But there's an old book called Preaching Slant. How do we do that in a way where people will, kind of like Jesus does in parables, where it's like you don't quite get it until they walk away and go, oh, I think that's what he was saying. Well, boy, maybe we have to kill him. They were away when they figured that out sometimes.
Scott Hughes [00:11:26]:
But speaking in a way that resonates with people to where they're thinking it through I think is really difficult nowadays. And I think one of the reasons I'm being hesitant is probably two reasons. One, my personality. And two is so that people aren't dismissed out of hand. Just that, that happens too quickly nowadays. And so I, that's why I try to push people towards responding and not reacting is to get a chance to get a hearing. Which doesn't mean you don't say the truth. It just means you say it in a way that's more invitational than pushing people away.
Scott Hughes [00:12:08]:
Does that help? Does that make sense? Am I couching it too much there?
Ryan Dunn [00:12:11]:
Yeah, I'm wondering if you can provide some examples about initiating or inviting situations or conversations like that.
Scott Hughes [00:12:21]:
Yeah, and maybe this is the direction you're going, maybe not. If it's not, you can tell me, but to me, it often doesn't come from the pulpit. In the sense that you may say a provocative statement at a pulpit, but with an invitation. Let's talk about this more together. We've got this study lined up, or we have this group. Make it invitational because preaching shouldn't be one-way, but it's often a one-way medium of communication. And how do we invite deeper conversations and participants where they can give their voice, their feedback, so that it doesn't become a bully pulpit, so that it becomes invitation into a conversation because these are often nuanced conversations that we can't get as deep into as we would like just from one sermon. And so how do we invite community conversation that slows the conversation down to where we can hear from each other and be in relationship first, relationship where we can draw on the common experience of encountering God's grace being people who are flawed and need each other.
Scott Hughes [00:13:32]:
And in those settings, to me, is where we can move people. Perhaps I'm being a bit pessimistic with what a preacher can do. And I don't mean to be. I just have found it's in conversations that people, in relationships that people trust, that people are able to move. They're not often able to move off their positions just from hearing someone else.
Ryan Dunn [00:13:59]:
And so often in communications, we talk about the difference between a broadcast medium and a social medium. And in this day and age, we toss around the word social media, merge social media, and we think of these online platforms. But those online platforms are often used for broadcast media. That's true. The difference really being that a broadcast is what you're talking about with that one-way conversation, a proclamation, so to speak, and then a truly social piece of content or social medium is something that is conversant, that allows both parties to be known in a sense. And it sounds like that if we're driving towards the provocative, the healthiest way to do so, at least, or maybe the most responsible way to do so in terms of church leadership is to do so in the socially conversant medium.
Ryan Dunn [00:14:57]:
Hi, listener. A little break here to let you know about another podcast. In a season when the church is being called to lead with courage, creativity, and deep faith, we all need spaces that help us pause, listen, and imagine what God is doing next. Igniting Imagination is a podcast for leaders who love the church and believe it has a vital role to play in the future. Each episode features rich conversations with pastors, theologians, and innovators from across the Methodist and broader Christian landscape, offering practical insights to strengthen spiritual practice, build community, and lead with wisdom. Igniting Imagination offers insightful ideas and is a source of hope, a reminder that the Spirit is moving, calling us, and opening new possibilities for human flourishing rooted in love, generosity, and belonging. If you're looking for insights that spark your imagination and stories that renew and reenergize you, we invite you to listen. Find Igniting Imagination wherever you get your podcasts or visit their website, ignitingimagination.org.
Ryan Dunn [00:16:10]:
So, you helped develop the Courageous Conversations curriculum or series. Was there a particular topic within that that was, I guess, most challenging for you or one that maybe as you were in the development process, you kind of tended to put on the back burner because you're a little reluctant to address it?
Scott Hughes [00:16:37]:
Yeah, what a great question. So we're going back 10 years to where, when I started this, and for me, the genesis was about learning. How do we create learning communities that have that sort of environment more so than a particular topic? And at the time, the topic leading into General Conference 2016 was much more about human sexuality. And so that was kind of an initial part of that conversation. And then it branched into other conversations as they became more relevant in terms of gun control or gun violence. Climate justice. We've seen now AI come into the picture. So there's been different spinoffs of hot topics, if you will, that for me, kind of regardless of the topic, it's how do we create the right container so that we can have meaningful conversation with each other instead of just focusing on the topic itself.
Scott Hughes [00:17:35]:
It's never been about topic for me, I guess, is what I'm getting at. Yeah, yeah, more about the, the environment that would create a way for people who disagree and have conflict stay at the table of conversation. More than you need to know here, but I call myself a professional conflict avoider. The reason I say that is because I've been to counseling. I was in a church setting and the conflict was terrible on staff, and I was finding some really unhealthy things happening in me and went to therapy, and they said, you know, You're not even involved in this conflict, but you're taking it on. And I was like, this isn't healthy. And so I come at this as someone who understands how painful some people can encounter conflict to be and try to help reimagine a way that it becomes much more invitational and participatory and not something that feels as painful or scary as what conflict and— because when we encounter an opinion different than our own, just neurologically what happens It's the same as if we encounter a bear at night in the woods. We shut down, brain drains from our brain into our hands, into our feet.
Scott Hughes [00:18:46]:
We are ready to fight and to flee, not ready to learn. So how do we create environments where the blood will stay in the prefrontal cortex and we can hear each other and without going, oh, let's fight, but going, oh, I'm curious now because I don't agree with that. That's a different space.
Ryan Dunn [00:19:06]:
Yeah. So within the context of maybe a church classroom or a small group setting, how do you start that? How do you move into this courageous conversation without immediately having people go into their fight or flight or in a sense put up their dukes to defend their presupposed position?
Scott Hughes [00:19:27]:
The phrase I like to use is the posture of curiosity. And kind of embodying that. And for me, that posture of curiosity is a way of being a disciple that listens. So it's a transferable skill into other areas of life that we might learn specifics in a courageous conversation, but then how do we take that into being a parent, being a spouse, other relationships? And so that whether it's something we see on social media, whether it's just someone off the street who provokes us, how do we first react or respond with a, boy, I don't agree with that. Can you tell me more? As opposed to let me tell you why you're wrong. Right. But how do we learn? Because it's a learning skill because I've had to learn it too of, boy, I want to punch back, right? I want to get my jab in as opposed to, oh, I have so many things that I see wrong with that.
Ryan Dunn [00:20:25]:
Right.
Scott Hughes [00:20:26]:
Yeah. Tell me more why you, how you get to to that conclusion, right? Especially if I can draw on, all right, you're a Christian, you believe in grace, you believe in these things. Tell me how you got there. Help me understand what Bible passages inform that for you so that I can begin to see differently.
Ryan Dunn [00:20:44]:
Have you heard from some congregations about how they've been implementing these courageous conversations and the kind of effect that they've had?
Scott Hughes [00:20:54]:
And I wish I could tell you every time it works, it works really well. I mean, this was something churches would draw on as they were going through disaffiliation. And of course, my hope would always have been, boy, let's stay together. And it was sad to me to see people walk through courageous conversations and just decide we're gonna split and split 60/40, whichever direction, right? I mean, just because I believe churches are our primary community of formation and to see that break apart is painful. So yes, there have been instances where a pastor I'm thinking of in Michigan where he led his congregation through this. They decided to disaffiliate and he did not. All right, and he said at least it helped him to leave in a more healthy way, right? And to honor them, they were disaffiliating, he was not, but he felt like at least it led to a more healthy way of leaving than anger or bitterness or something like that. And there's been others that are more successful, but I probably tend, like everyone else, think of the negative, and that's what comes to mind first.
Scott Hughes [00:21:58]:
So yes, I know churches have use these and use them in ways. And I try to say, begin with something really simple. Begin with something like, you know, the proverbial color of the carpet, right? So that you can begin to build trust with one another so that you can lead into these deeper conversations. If when we begin with those deeper conversations, anxiety is already high, how do you begin with something that has a real low stake that we can learn how to do this so that we can build into deeper, harder conversations with a level of trust?
Ryan Dunn [00:22:30]:
Do you have some examples of some of those lower-stake or less risky?
Scott Hughes [00:22:37]:
Some that I've used in the past is small groups versus Sunday school. Should our church use a Sunday school model or a small group model? People have some passion about that, but like at the end of the day, whatever. But I remember in leading one of those conversations, someone said, my Sunday school class is where my deepest relationships are. Why would you take that from me? That's great, but you don't know those stories until you have a conversation at that level. It can be worship times. It can be things that people have a little bit of interest in but are not ready to walk out of the room over, and that's contextual. Sometimes that just simply worship times can set people off or worship styles can set people off. In other contexts, those might be a low enough stake that you can you can begin.
Scott Hughes [00:23:27]:
I have others, but they're not coming to mind at the moment. But yeah, there's several of those.
Ryan Dunn [00:23:32]:
Well, I wanna back out to this idea that so often people in leadership in church settings right now are called to be, as you put it, responsive to topics at hand, actions in the world at large. Feels like there are just a lot of them, any number of things that we could be responding to at the moment. In my role, I kind of get to cop out a little bit because it's not my job to craft responses for the United Methodist Church. Other people have been elected to those positions. But a pastor at a local church probably is carrying some expectation that they need to offer some response from their congregation or for their congregation. Do you have within mind maybe, I don't know, 3 or 4 things to keep in mind for the pastor that is in that situation for when the next thing comes about? You know, what might they want to consider as they're putting together their public statement on how the church is reacting to, I don't know, a death in their community or or a divisive political statement from a leader in the community or something akin to that.
Scott Hughes [00:24:57]:
Yeah, it's interesting. I was picking up on your propositions. This is just part of my weird brain. You said to and for, and I wonder how do we do it with? How do we do it with our congregations and not just for them, but with them to say, as the community of faith, here's how we can help you think theologically about this. And it's hard to do to because we are so hyper-partisan and there's so much political rhetoric, but as best we can to frame things theologically and biblically more so, and even biblically can be tough because it can be so used and weaponized in ways that makes that even hard, right? But how do we begin with contextually, who are we? How are we embodying the gospel? How do we bring hope in life to a chaotic world? Because that's what I think a lot of people are feeling is just chaos. As you said, one after another of how do we speak the abundance that God calls us to? How do we think about human flourishing and the common good as we're naming what God is calling us to and the promises God has for us so that that becomes the framing and not just the headline, not just whatever that we're supposed to be outraged about. Out, which is tough because oftentimes we probably should be outraged, right? I mean, I know I certainly can be, but how do we do that not out of our anger, but out of an invitation into who God is calling us to be? And I don't always have those words. I hope pastors will work with their people to find what makes sense for us in this community to point people to the healing and hope that can only be found in God and not in other areas.
Scott Hughes [00:26:49]:
That's probably pretty generic, but I hope that begins to help.
Ryan Dunn [00:26:52]:
Yeah. Well, even that framing and preposition is extremely helpful in my mind, at least.
Scott Hughes [00:26:56]:
Yeah.
Ryan Dunn [00:26:57]:
How do we, how do we get a sense of communicating who we are with people as opposed to for or on behalf of? I'm getting the impression, I don't want to diagnose you in terms of like the Enneagram and say, oh, you're, You know, definitely a peacemaker, but there are some tendencies there.
Scott Hughes [00:27:19]:
Score one for you. Yeah, I'm a 9 on the Enneagram, if that helps.
Ryan Dunn [00:27:23]:
And what the particular tell was the professional conflict avoider. Yeah. But here you are, you're crafting this series that's been going on for a number of years now around courageous conversations, which has you dealing in spots that I don't know, have the potential to tear people away from one another. I'm wondering, carrying that sense of peacemaking, of collectivism, of wanting to bring people together in a time where we are right now, where it feels like the gravitation is towards the margins on either way, you can take that theologically or politically. People tend to move towards those margins at the moment. How do you kind of refresh for the work that you're doing?
Scott Hughes [00:28:18]:
Yeah, that's a great question. I don't know if refresh is the right word, but I think where I would, where I feel a calling or an enable, an ability to help equip, it would be how do we push past superficial unity for deeper community? Because I know for me, when I find those spots of community, it's so life-giving. That I want that for others, right? To find a community where you can be vulnerable, where you can say, boy, this is what I think, and I might be wrong, but here's— this is— and it's those communities that I want to help churches find. Because I've been in churches where I see both in the same community. It was a larger church, and there was some places of real superficial unity and some places that had some real deep community. And it's in I believe that's who God is calling us to be, is that deep sense of community. When we look at Acts, they had lots of disagreements, but we also saw incredible vulnerability. And I think that's where people find the healing of Christ is in vulnerability.
Scott Hughes [00:29:21]:
So how do we help people find a deeper sense of community if they're willing to do the hard work? And I still have to do this all the time, as you noted, of going, of pushing myself to go deeper in relationships and being vulnerable and being willing to say, I'm not sure I agree. That's tough words for me. Because like you said, I want to keep harmony, but even in my own small group at church, I have to, boy, I'm not sure I agree with that. That's really difficult for me to think about. Yeah, so that's what kind of my North Star, if you will, of helping push purple congregations to say, let's strive for more than just we show up for worship together and that's our common experience. What if our common experience grows deeper? So, and this is my hope, that the church could teach the world what it looks like to disagree and love. Like we should be able to teach the world what it looks, we're not doing that right now. I mean, I don't think that's a huge statement.
Scott Hughes [00:30:24]:
But I do think we have that calling because we have common ground. The common ground of encountering God's grace should be able to push us into a deeper place and to be able to show a world that is experiencing fractured and chaos what a witness it would be to the world to say, those people disagree, but they love. They love each other. That's the vision. That's the hope. That's what keeps me going in this.
Ryan Dunn [00:30:48]:
Yeah.
Ryan Dunn [00:30:49]:
Well, I mean, that's a very Wesleyan sentiment in itself too.
Scott Hughes [00:30:52]:
Yeah.
Ryan Dunn [00:30:53]:
Even though we may not think alike, may we not love alike, right?
Scott Hughes [00:30:57]:
Yeah.
Ryan Dunn [00:30:59]:
Well, before we conclude for this episode, do you have any final thoughts, any parting advice for the pastors or communicators out there who are still feeling a little pressure to add their voices to this time that we're in?
Scott Hughes [00:31:17]:
Yeah, so I want to go backwards then forward. So backwards, this past summer I got the opportunity to be part of a Wesley pilgrimage and learning more about John and Charles Wesley, and I didn't realize how much they disagreed. And I mean relationally disagreed. They had some like breakup times I didn't know about. But they had that and were able to work through that. And so how does that help inform us for today? Number one, realizing we're part of a big tent makes it really hard to speak for everyone. We're not likely to do that. But how do I have enough pastoral relationship to be able to say hard things in a way that someone's not gonna just get up and walk out, but rather foster the environment to where someone will go, boy, Pastor, I think you're crazy and you're off your rocker, but let's talk about it, right? As opposed to, I'm not coming back to this church again, which I've been in those experiences where tried to preach hard things and people say, if we do that again, this ain't my church, right? And try to help keep people as, let's first and foremost think about relationships.
Scott Hughes [00:32:36]:
And there may have to come a time where maybe for whatever reason we have to go our own ways, but as much as we can to lean in and say, you've encountered God's grace, I've encountered God's grace, let's begin there and see where that'll lead us. Again, with the bigger hope in mind of being able witness to others, we don't have to resort to name-calling. We don't have to resort to the hyperbolic statements. We don't have to resort to all of that. Instead, we can remain steadfast in who God is calling us to be and the people God is calling us to be.
Ryan Dunn [00:33:17]:
Reverend Scott Hughes, thank you so much for offering your time, insight, experience with us. Appreciate it.
Scott Hughes [00:33:23]:
Yeah, thanks, Ryan. It was a joy to be on with you.
Ryan Dunn [00:33:26]:
All right, some uncomfortable topics, and we appreciate you sticking through this conversation, and hopefully it's bringing value into your ministry. Thank you for taking this journey with us on MyComm Church Communications and Marketing. You can learn more about the podcast, you can find episode notes and get more resources for your digital ministry toolkit at resourceumc.org/mycomm-podcast. myComm is a production of United Methodist Communications, comes out monthly. I want to thank Renee McNeil and Andrew Schleicher for production and marketing support. My name is Ryan Dunn. I'll be talking to you in a month. In the meantime, peace.